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 So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?

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ravengrim
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PostSubject: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:06 pm

The Goth subculture came out of England in the 1980's. It spawned off of the post punk era. It is one of the longest surviving cultures of the 20th-21st centuries.

Goth subculture has it's own style of music and fashion and within that, different styles. Like for instance fashion, there is Victorian, death rock, and wearing just black attire and heavy make-up just to name a few.

The Goth subculture was also known at one point as the dark wave culture.

Some of the most popular Goth bands are Lacuna Coil, Within Temptation, and Cradle Of Filth.

Popular books among the culture include the Vampire Chronicles, the comic book series Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, along with the graphic novel, The Crow.

People in the Goth Scene like to portray themselves as different and independent from other genres.

Today the Goth scene thrives in Western Europe, Germany in particular


The Goth subculture

It looks a little anemic to be an accual factual peice of journalisim so what is this supposed to be?
Goth in bite size portions?
Goth for idiots?I hope she doesn't ever write a guide on how to become one.

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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 pm

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Some of the most popular Goth bands are Lacuna Coil, Within Temptation, and Cradle Of Filth.

Um.... NO. Really, come on now. Those are not goth artists. They are rock and metal artists. They really have their own subculture. If they want goth they should have listed Souxie or some new Gothic EBM (or what ever it's called).
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:23 pm

Since when did explaining goth come in "fast facts"? Everytime someone asks me about it, it comes out more than what that lady said. Longer too. And really, where the heck did she get her info? If she is a " Milwaukee Pop Culture Examiner" she might want to start acctually doing her job/hobby/research...
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La Diva Carlotta
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:33 pm

Yeah, the Examiner.com isn't a real newspaper or news website. It's a place for anyone who fancies themselves a journalist or writer to post their articles, stories, etc. Anyone can write for them, really. Kinda like yelp.com where people post their reviews of stuff.

Maybe if enough people complain they'd take down that particlular article.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:42 pm

Hee hee I just posted a comment on the article site. Everyone else here should too. Oh, I also clicked on "Report article" and complained. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:46 pm

Well I can't really talk about music because for the life of me I don't know of any of the bands. I have never heard of any of them and I have never gotten much help when it comes to getting into goth bands. But let me just say......WTF first of all the "goths" in the truest form started way before the 80's. They actually originated durning the time of the vikings. Don't quote me on this but I wanna say around the 1600's. If we wanna talk more modernly then for the love of god it is not a quick thing to talk about. The beginnings of the goth culture and how it has progressed is just as in depth as how many different cultures and rituals there are through out all of north america. It just can't be done.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:50 pm

^^That's what I am saying! How can you post all of the history into a couple short sentances. It can't be done!

I posted a comment and reported the article too, Diva. Hopefully they will delete that "article"
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:51 pm

(sorry for the double post)

Carlotta I followed your lead. I'm quite happy with my little comment and complaint. It made me feel better on the inside.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:57 pm

Commented and reported.
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La Diva Carlotta
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:58 am

I read your posts on that site, ladies. Good job!!! great
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:51 am

To be controversial, I do feel that it's largely irrelevant to discuss Goths (as in the Germanic tribe), into a history of Gothic culture. There is very little relevance to the subculture which spawned in the 80's, and if you want to discuss historical influences, it's probably more relevant (and less confusing to noobs) to briefly touch on the Victorian Gothic revival, which stylised the original Gothic aesthetic sense to something more recognisable in terms of how we think of 'Gothic' today.

That said, it's better to have some sense of history and influence than none at all, and reading that article really, really made my head hurt.I'm trying to think up smething to post that doesn't just repeat the complaints you guys made! tongue


(Oh, and Deadcoldgothgirl: I'm sure there are plenty of people here willing to edjumacate you on Gothic music. Unless you're deliberately avoiding it, of course. It's not to everyone's taste tongue)
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:11 am

Comment made.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:53 pm

PorcelainPirate wrote:
To be controversial, I do feel that it's largely irrelevant to discuss Goths (as in the Germanic tribe), into a history of Gothic culture. There is very little relevance to the subculture which spawned in the 80's, and if you want to discuss historical influences, it's probably more relevant (and less confusing to noobs) to briefly touch on the Victorian Gothic revival, which stylised the original Gothic aesthetic sense to something more recognisable in terms of how we think of 'Gothic' today.

That said, it's better to have some sense of history and influence than none at all, and reading that article really, really made my head hurt.I'm trying to think up smething to post that doesn't just repeat the complaints you guys made! tongue


(Oh, and Deadcoldgothgirl: I'm sure there are plenty of people here willing to edjumacate you on Gothic music. Unless you're deliberately avoiding it, of course. It's not to everyone's taste tongue)

Well, no one has touched on the fact that she says that goths are mainly in Germany. I think she may get that idea from the Wave Gothic in Treffen or whatever it's called. Also, One could try to give her actual fashion tips other than "wearing all black and heavy make-up."
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:55 pm

PorcelainPirate wrote:
To be controversial, I do feel that it's largely irrelevant to discuss Goths (as in the Germanic tribe), into a history of Gothic culture. There is very little relevance to the subculture which spawned in the 80's, and if you want to discuss historical influences, it's probably more relevant (and less confusing to noobs) to briefly touch on the Victorian Gothic revival, which stylised the original Gothic aesthetic sense to something more recognisable in terms of how we think of 'Gothic' today.

That said, it's better to have some sense of history and influence than none at all, and reading that article really, really made my head hurt.I'm trying to think up smething to post that doesn't just repeat the complaints you guys made! tongue

Indeed, those Goths are closer to the Huns than the modern day consideration of goth. Always hate when they try to make comparisions.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:56 pm

I would love to learn porcelainpirate. If anyone wants to pm lists of their fav goth bands please do.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:10 pm

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I am just sooooooooooooooo happy that somebody has summed me up in a piffle of a paragraph!

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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:55 pm

Whoops! I got a wee bit snidey - my bad blush

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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:55 pm

I liked your comment Helen.
I liked everyone's comments.
I had to think awhile before I said anything.I didn't want to make the poor girl cry so I was nicer than I would have been last night.

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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:00 pm

A touch disapointed no one actually educated her as to what some goth bands are or the genre's or that no recommended some reading to her so she might actually be put on the path to some credible information. Just seems more constructive then 6 or 7 posts of oh your a moron check your facts.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:16 pm

That can always be fixed Alenuska.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:33 pm

Ravengrim, your signature says it all. exactly

Although the "Goths" as a tribe or "Gothic" architecture do not lead directly into our subculture today, there is an argument to be made for several centuries worth of art and literature that is somehow dark, strange and melodramatic, though not necessarily called "goth". There have been times when that has been more dominant: In different eras Fusseli's "Nightmare", Stoker's "Dracula" and The Cure's "Disintegration" have been each been incredibly popular... wait wtf

I feel like I've posted this exact thing but better worded and reasoned out a few times on the "Evolution of Gothism" thread. blush

edit: alenuska, your maturity is humbling
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:37 pm

^^ If the "journalist" who wrote the article read what you just posted (which touches on multiple influences, and some well-thought-out analysis), her little brain would 'splode.

edit: And you're right re: Alenuska's approach; I get the feeling she wouldn't be receptive though. People just learn as much as they want to; some choose to learn very little.
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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:03 am

As a bit of history, gothic fashion and architecture began around the 1400s. Goth fashion was just over exaggerated lengths. The liripipe at normal "tail" length would go down to mid-shoulders but trail to the floor when exaggerated. Dress hems were so long that women often had to employ chopines (platforms) to keep the dress from dragging in the dirt. Even the point on the shoes (poulaines) got so exaggerated that the Catholic church banned them because they were being used as a symbol of a man's virility (the pointed toes had to be tied to the calf of the leg to keep from tripping over them); pointed poulaines were practical for women to push the hem so she wouldn't have to expose her ankle.

Liripipe


Woman's Houppelande


Man's Houppelande


Poulaines


Chopines


A more extreme choppin

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PostSubject: Re: So What Is This Supposed To Be Anyway?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:05 am

Thank you ginger. I knew my date was off but I wasn't sure by how much... Just about 200 years... is that in limits for being some what correct tongue
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