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 France conciders ban on Burkas

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PostSubject: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:22 am

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PARIS, France (CNN) -- The French National Assembly announced Tuesday the creation of an inquiry into whether women in France should be allowed to wear the burka, one day after President Nicolas Sarkozy controversially told lawmakers that the traditional Muslim garment was "not welcome" in France.
A cross-party panel of 32 lawmakers will investigate whether the traditional Muslim garment poses a threat to the secular nature of the French constitution. They are due to report back with their recommendations in six months.

Last week 57 lawmakers -- led by communist legislator Andre Gerin -- signed a petition calling for a study into the feasibility of legislation to ban the burka in public places.

On Monday Sarkozy declared in a keynote parliamentary address that the burka, which covers women from head to toe, is "not welcome" in France.
"The problem of the burka is not a religious problem. This is an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity. This is not a religious symbol. It is a sign of subservience; it is a sign of lowering. I want to say solemnly, the burka is not welcome in France," Sarkozy told lawmakers.

The right of Muslim women to cover themselves is fiercely debated in France, which has a large Muslim minority but also a staunchly secular constitution.
In 2004, the French parliament passed legislation banning Muslim girls from wearing headscarves in state schools, prompting widespread Muslim protests. The law also banned other conspicuous religious symbols including Sikh turbans, large Christian crucifixes and Jewish skull caps.

Last year, France's top court denied a Moroccan woman's naturalization request on the grounds that she wore a burka.

Some lawmakers have called for burkas to be banned completely, claiming they are degrading to women. They also include housing minister Fadela Amara, a Muslim-born women's rights campaigner, who has called the garment "a kind of tomb for women."

"We cannot accept in our country women trapped behind a fence, cut off from social life, deprived of any identity. This is not the idea that we have of a woman's dignity," Sarkozy said Monday.

But French Muslim leaders say that only a small minority of women wear the full veil and had previously criticized calls for the issue to be the subject of a parliamentary inquiry.

"To raise the subject like this, via a parliamentary committee, is a way of stigmatizing Islam and the Muslims of France," Mohammed Moussaoui, the head of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, told AFP last week.

"We are shocked by the idea parliament should be put to work on such a marginal issue."
According to CIA estimates, between 5 and 10 percent of France's 64 million population are Muslim. The country does not collect its own statistics on religion in accordance with laws enshrining France's status as a secular state.

France is not the only European Union country to have considered banning the burka. Dutch lawmakers voted in favor of a ban in 2005, although the government of the time was defeated in elections before it could pass legislation to outlaw the garment.


Call me a feminist, but I agree with Sarkozy.
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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:10 am

Its stupid I saw this a few days ago.

Its up to the woman weither she wants to cover herself from head to toe leaving her eyes and feet showing - as it says in the holy Qur'an. Countries shouldnt be bothered about what religion tells a women to wear; they should be more bothered about the economy crisis, policing, you more important matters!

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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:12 pm

The Qur'an may say that, but it's not always her choice to wear it. As you were telling Ian, culture getting in the way of religion.
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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:03 pm

I think the thing that the French are getting at is that it's for security reasons.

I mean how many of us have had to take off new rocks at airports, leave bullet belts at home whilst travelling or give up wearing claw rings because clubs ban them.
And yet people in burkas can call discrimination when they are treated suspiciously.

They feel that as the law is now it's impossible to id people at airports or for police or official purposes (immigration issues, drivers licences etc) wearing what is essentially a mask.
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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:27 pm

Glamboy wrote:
I think the thing that the French are getting at is that it's for security reasons.

I mean how many of us have had to take off new rocks at airports, leave bullet belts at home whilst travelling or give up wearing claw rings because clubs ban them.
And yet people in burkas can call discrimination when they are treated suspiciously.

They feel that as the law is now it's impossible to id people at airports or for police or official purposes (immigration issues, drivers licences etc) wearing what is essentially a mask.


This is a harsh yet honest assessment.

People feel that their religious ideals and practices should be respected, but then these people are often first in line to judge and call for the change of those around them. Your religion is a choice and an opinion, just like the sexual, fashion, musical and entertainment interests of a person. These interests and opinions are directly influenced by family upbringing, society and peers; just like religion. So therefore, if people of a certain type of dress or fashion can be hassled about their place in certain public forums, so too can people of any religion in a public forum expect rules.

If a country outlawed necklaces, and you visit it or chose to live in it, whether you're wearing a crucifix or a locket: you shouldn't be surprised if a cops asks you to take it off.
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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:18 pm

When I first read this today I thought it would have been less a deal if the French lawmakers would have just said it was for security reasons. You can hide a pretty heavy duty weapon beneath a burka and if a man is willing to blow himself up for a cause, it cetainly wouldn't be anything to don a burka in order to carry out a mission. Not saying that women don't do this too, but the gender of the majority of the body counts for the most part are males.

I believe all this will do though is to put more restrictions on women instead of helping them. I think the ban is stupid in a way because now they will just be made to stay home and off the streets. So they have actually hurt them more than help.


I'm only starting to rant on this. I don't think most women who wear burkas are doing it because they want to. Sure people can say they have the right to wear them or not, but hey, that's like you don't have to wear this, but if you don't, this and this will happen to you, to your family. Just like in the news I've been reading of the women protestors taking to the streets in Iran! Some of them took off their burkas and were wearing dresses.

Thinking about all this make me so angry. Poor women.


Last edited by cynfullov on Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:53 pm

Makes you want to start a mini skirts for burkas campain. Mad
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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:14 pm

Having read all of the comments above I just see it as yet another case of discrimination on the lines of "somebody looking different"

Sarkozy is a bigot, plain and simple. He talks of women being deprived of their dignity? He wants to look a bit closer to home, in fact he wants to look across the breakfast table at his wife Mad

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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:56 pm

I'm not against them wearing them. I just want them to have the right to chose without being silently intimidated and forced to. That Sarkozy guy is just as bad if he is saying women have rights, but doesn't treat his wife that way.
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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:16 pm

As much as I agree that the Burka is a symbol of woman's subjugation, I don't agree that a law should be passed to ban them. If a man wants to strap a bomb to himself, he can still do it and hide it in other ways.

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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:24 pm

As much as I don't like the idea of a woman having to wear a burka, I most definitely do NOT think they should be banned completely. Now, I do agree that they should have to be removed before entering anywhere where there is a security reason, like a bank, or a secure government building, and I do believe they should have to be removed to take ID pictures - wearing one defeats the entire purpose of an ID, lol!

I'm iffy about whether certain stores should allow them also, but that's getting into blurry territory. In addition to there having been men robbing banks while wearing burkas, I remember seeing on the news not that long ago that a jewelry store in India, I think, banned burkas in their store because they had been robbed twice by men wearing burkas to hide their identity and their weapons.

It's a sticky situation, that's for sure.

I have quite a few female Muslim friends who wear scarves over their hair, and all of them say they would definitely not want to wear a full burka/niqab.
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PostSubject: Re: France conciders ban on Burkas   Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:35 am

This is a situation where someone is clearly going to get the shaft, there has to be a loser in this situation, and sadly it's probably going to be Muslim women.
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